Very Fine Day #60: Casey Lewis
"How much would that suck to be a young person right now?"
Thanks for subscribing to Very Fine Day. First timer? Read more about what VFD is here.
Very Fine Day is 100% reader supported. You simply love to see it.
Join us today.
CASEY LEWIS ~ GEN Z TRENDS ~ TREND FORECASTING ~ AFTER SCHOOL CLOVER LETTER ~ TIKTOK ~ COWBOY BOOTS ~ RSS FEEDS ~ LAZY DOGS ~
“When I think about myself as a 17 year old or 22 year old, I'm like: how much would that suck to be a young person right now?”
It’s VFD #60. Sixty of these things. Today it’s Casey Lewis. Casey is (official title?) brand strategist, trend forecaster, writer, editor, and creator of the wonderful After School newsletter, focusing on Gen Z trends. Casey also co-created Clover Letter in the 2010s, a newsletter built out to reach 200,000 Gen Zers, before that was sold and then sold on again.
Casey and I talked about the rising scene of the trend forecaster (which seems to be a whole lane on TikTok, now), as well as RSS feeds, growing up in rural Missouri, and using the internet to connect.
Meanwhile, I’m still here in sunny ol’ Sydney, watching the world go by. How ‘bout this Elon Musk guy? No - we won’t go there. Not on my watch. Too many takes, not enough reason. Congratulations to “the rich” for continuing to be rich.
Ya’ll need anything just yell. You know how to find me. Good hearin from you.
See you down the road
INTERVIEW BEGINS
Casey Lewis: Hey, how's it going?
VFD: I'm good. How are you?
Casey Lewis: Good. What time is it?
VFD: It is 6:30 in the morning.
Casey Lewis: Oh my god.
VFD: That's fine. Everyone has that response. It's fine. I'm awake. It actually worked out pretty well because my dog, for whatever reason, some mornings has the urge to irritate me. Very early in the morning.
Casey Lewis: Yeah I have a dog back here, asleep. He does the same.
VFD: Where are you? Are you in New York?
Casey Lewis: I'm in Brooklyn.
VFD: Living the dream.
Casey Lewis: Yeah, I've lived here for 10 years. And it's been so cold this year. It’s the first time I've thought about living somewhere else.
VFD: Where would you go?
Casey Lewis: Somewhere warmer?
VFD: California?
Casey Lewis: Yeah, yeah. Who knows. Somewhere where it’s warm. Is it warm there?
VFD: It’s probably warmer than in Autumn or Winter over there. Cold weather in Australia is not really all that cold. It’s like 14 degrees celsius. You can still wear a t-shirt outside and be a bit chilly, but otherwise fine.
Thanks for doing this, by the way. I obviously want to talk about what you do, but I find it very interesting because - and I don’t know if you have recognised this already, you probably have - but it feels like there is a rise in “Gen Z soothsayer” trend consultant-types. And apologies if I’m getting things wrong. But it’s becoming a very scattered thing where you’re seeing people who are TikTok consultants and you’re seeing people who are “what are kids eating” consultants. And it’s beginning to get very granular.
I feel like you’ve been doing it longer than most?
Casey Lewis: When I was in college I worked for a trend research agency. I’ve always been interested in emerging “youth” trends - even though I didn’t really know that’s what I was interested in. I didn’t even realise it was marketing when I worked for this agency. It was early on and the internet was different back then.
And so I’d report on cool stuff that brands were doing and the movements that were taking off. It just felt like there was an element of discovery versus straight-up marketing. And I’m from rural Missouri, small town…
VFD: What’s that like?
Casey Lewis:.. Pretty Trump-y.
VFD: Ah, right. Cool, cool.
Casey Lewis: Very cool. And the internet was very much my lifeline when I was a kid. Something else that got me interested in trends at a young age was teen magazines. I loved magazines, and I still have hundreds, because I was just always interested in where things were going next. And being in rural Missouri, obviously, I didn’t have much exposure to that. But I was nonetheless very interested in it.
VFD: What’s the deal with Missouri if you’re trying to be on top of trends and ahead of the curve? I can’t imagine everyone there is like: sick, great, that’s so cool!
Casey Lewis: So when I was in high school… I think we got a desktop computer when I was in middle school. And when I was maybe 13-years-old I started a fashion blog - and I use the word “fashion” in a generous way. Like, we didn’t even have a mall. But I loved writing and loved to be exposed to the bigger world through my computer.
And through that blog I was able to go to fashion week in New York when I was in high school. And that just opened my eyes to how much of a powerful thing the internet is. But to be ahead of the trends, or following trends, in rural Missouri… you’re just entirely reliant on the internet. It’s funny, because even now my mom will come visit and she’ll be like: I think I’m going to wear this thing. And it’s like: Mom… people haven’t worn that in New York for two years. But I’m not going to say that because I don’t want to be an asshole.
It’s that kind of thing. It’s just interesting to see the trend cycle - which is very much sped up and also so global - but it’s still interesting to see the nuances that play out in rural Missouri versus New York.
VFD: So would the “trend” scouting be more physical, in terms of what you actually noticed, rather than on the internet?
Casey Lewis: Currently, no. I would say no. I mean, in Williamsburg you do see a bit - especially in Brooklyn - there’s just so many Gen Zers. I remember last Spring that the second the weather turned nice everyone was wearing cowboy boots. Just suddenly.
It’s the kind of thing where it’s like: I can’t avoid it. But I think if I spent a lot of time on TikTok I would see those same things play out on TikTok. Just like how I see it on the street.
But it’s interesting…
I worked at a trend agency and this agency had been around forever. It was one of the OGs. And early on their trend research, pre-internet, was literally traveling around and just looking at people in different places. It's just so crazy to think about how that isn't a thing anymore. Like, I don't need to go to Australia to know what's cool there.
VFD: It hasn't changed. Well, actually, I'm not the guiding voice on that. But in my mind, it hasn't changed for a long time.
Casey Lewis: It's probably much the same here. You’re drinking oat milk lattes, they're probably going to the bar and getting vodka martinis… I think the internet has just made it so that everyone is exposed to the same things at the same time.
VFD: So how do you do your gig in a way where you make yourself stand out? I think that, for anyone working online, that's the challenge, right? Because the internet's great for literally everyone.
Casey Lewis: Well, let’s back up a little bit.
So I worked at agencies, but I also worked in media for a long time. So I worked at Teen Vogue for a long time, was super interested in youth consumers and reaching them directly versus reporting on them. And then I worked at MTV: a similar young audience. And then I worked in New York Mag most recently. And that's when I became more interested in understanding trends from an adult perspective.
I've also gotten older, so I'm no longer in it. And so when I left that job last May, I wanted to start something that kept me on top of all these trends. Every day, you're looking at the Internet, you're seeing so many things happen. You're seeing - especially with TikTok - so many products are selling out. It's happening so fast. And I wanted a place that wasn't my brain - because I don't have a great memory - to consolidate all this and to track it. To be able to look back and say: a year ago, this thing was happening and now it's about this.
And so I started a substack, truly, on a lark. I didn’t tell anybody - I did it for a full month and just did it every day.
Just to see: can I even do this thing every day? Is it beneficial for my own brain? Does it feel redundant after a bit? But it didn’t. It felt fun.
After a month or so I tweeted about it and then people I knew signed up.
But to answer your question: I don't know how to stand out in a wave of so much content every day. And I am trying to cut through it myself. So I think that some people, especially adults who want to stay on top of these things but feel overwhelmed by the millions of headlines that are published each day, it's just a lot of content to consume. Some people are like: great, this is a shortcut.
That's what I hope I can be: a shortcut. Because I'm consuming it anyway. So at least I can maybe save some other people some time.
VFD: How have you figured that out? You're following certain things? Following certain Twitter accounts or an Instagram account? There's no secret sauce, I guess, is what I'm looking at.
Casey Lewis: Well, I actually have a really intense process. I’ve been very reliant on RSS feeds my whole career. And I worked at Teen Vogue where I had a very different RSS feed. It was entertainment news, and it was like “What’s One Direction doing next?” and so I operated in that space.
Then there was Google Reader (rip), and now I’m on feedly. And I just have so many publications and keywords set up. I also have this anxious energy, as a person, so I like scrolling the headlines. It’s good for me.
VFD: You think that’s good?
Casey Lewis: It’s better. I don’t spend much time on TikTok. I really don’t spend much time on Instagram. I do spend some time on Twitter but it’s better for me to look at headlines and process that information that way rather than aimlessly scrolling TikTok.
VFD: Do you ever feel like what you do every day must feel like such an accelerated thing. Like, do you ever feel depressed? You’re so hyper aware of how things are moving, quickly, or beyond you, away from you. I feel like if I did that every day I’d just be too aware. I’d be like: I don’t want to know! I just want to enjoy my particularly pair of jeans in my particular way.
Casey Lewis: So, I’m 34. And if I was a little bit younger I think that it would impact me a lot more than that. That whole: I’m becoming irrelevant thing. I need to change my style! I need to get this new thing! How am I going to keep up!? I feel like I’m a little bit above that, age-wise.
I started the newsletter a year ago. And I have my style and the things I buy have become more like staples. I have the one pair of jeans, I have 15 of the same shirt. I just want things I like, and then I stick with them.
It’s especially intense with beauty trends on TikTok. Like, I'm not into makeup, really. So I'm not like: I need this new thing. I don't feel that that much. But when I think about myself as a 17 year old or 22 year old, I'm like: how much would that suck to be a young person right now? Because you have to be on top of these trends and you have the pressure to have all these new products and to be doing these things and to be documenting your life on TikTok and to be on this new app BeReal…
I just think the pressure to keep up with the Joneses is always there, no matter your age, no matter what year it is, but even more so for young people. Especially when TikTok algorithms are constantly like: have you seen this thing? And it's like: no, I haven't. Why am I not seeing this thing? Oh my god!!
I think it would send me into a spiral.
VFD: Yeah, good luck with that. Do you talk to a lot of younger people?
Casey Lewis: I do. One interesting thing, since I started After School, is that Gen Z founders will reach out to me. The other night I had drinks with two Gen Z founders of different companies. I have a lot of contact from previous jobs. Day-to-day, I have people I can text. I don’t have a Gen Z sibling or cousin or anything like that - I wish I had that sort of thing as a sounding board.
VFD: Yeah, I mean,I feel like you probably don't want to, in a way - you almost don't want to speak to too many young people. Because they would influence you into a particular circle, right? It's all moving so fast, but I feel like it's also a whole bunch of different bubbles moving really fast. It's not one, big bubble. Even talking about it gives me mild anxiety. Nevermind growing up in it. Not fun.
Casey Lewis: I would say the bulk of my subscribers are people trying to understand young people. So like VCs, founders, marketing people, agency people. But then I've had some people who are Gen Zers reach out and say: I like to follow this newsletter because it tells me about what my generation is doing. Which is interesting. I'm like: do you really need me? Aren’y you better than me? It is interesting to see.
VFD: Yeah, yeah. How old were you at Teen Vogue?
Casey Lewis: I was an intern there when I was in college. I was one of the early online interns. It was before Conde Nast had any sort of investment in the web. It was super interesting. There was like no team. And yeah, it was weird.
I mean, Conde Nast realised the value of digital so late in the game. We were sort of the weird step kids that were just doing blog posts. I worked full time there off and on. I was an editorial assistant there, then I went to an agency to do trend research, went back to Teen Vogue. Most recently left there as a senior editor. So I was there throughout different periods.
VFD: How many years is this?
Casey Lewis: I was an intern, I think, in 2008. And then I was there through Justin Bieber and the One Direction heyday. I left in 2016 to start something like The Skimm but for teens (Clover Letter), which was then acquired by an LA based media company called Awesomeness.
VFD: Awesomeness… what a name…
Casey Lewis: They're not so much around anymore. But they were one of the early companies that realised that YouTube influencers could be cast in their own series and movies. They did what a lot of people are doing for TikTokers now, signing them to contracts…
VFD: Yeah, gotcha. And they bought your newsletter?
Casey Lewis: I think Viacom acquired them a couple years ago.
VFD: Wow. Okay.
Casey Lewis: It was a daily newsletter but different to what I’m doing now. Because it was actually for teens. So we grew that - it was a different time - but we grew that to 200,000 teen girl subscribers. And not to go too much into the weeds here, but it was ahead of the Trump/Hillary election. So my friend and I - she had worked, I was coming from Teen Vogue - we were very much of a mind that this is a historic time. We’re gonna have a female president….
And then what happened happened.
VFD: Were you just like: Let’s… get outta here.
Casey Lewis: Yeah. I mean, how long have you been working in media? Are you editorial facing? Or more strategy?
VFD: I am editorial facing, but I had what I refer to as a sabbatical, in the past two years, and worked at a health/ tech company. Because I think similar to you: a lot was happening in the media. And I was just like: This is not fun.
Casey Lewis: I mean, even today - you probably haven't seen it yet… but Netflix hired all of these journalists from Refinery and all these places and then, today, just unloaded all of them.
VFD: Hectic. That’s not good.
Casey Lewis: It’s the turnover, y’know? That’s what made me want to get out of that side of media. And then cancel culture makes it especially nerve wracking.
VFD: I mean, you want to talk about cycles? The media industry has plenty of cycles. One of them being redundancies every three years or so. I’ve been there. But yeah, that's not fun. I’m just thinking about everyone I know who works at Netflix…
Casey Lewis: It’s also that when these things happen … you kind of see it coming.
VFD: I’m not sure anyone has done a great job of things. I think VCs and tech companies are obsessed with content. But most of the time, in a very cold way, they don’t actually understand what they want. Because what they want, often, can’t deliver what they want. If that makes sense.
Like: We want all of this great, cool content. Five year investment? We’ll see…
I get it. But it’s not fun.
Casey Lewis: Not fun. It's not. When I graduated from college in 2010, I studied not only in journalism, but I specifically studied magazine journalism, which was just so absurd. In retrospect, it's like: what was I thinking? But we didn't know.
VFD: Yeah. You’d think that the whole thing is shifting towards something sustainable. But I think everyone’s just gonna end up working for The New York Times.
Casey Lewis: Eventually Substack.
VFD: Ha, yeah. Well - thanks for chatting. I do love what you’re doing. Do keep doing it.
Casey Lewis: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me.